ercoupe lsa

[goinaround]

Please bear with me on grammatical errors this is done on droid.
What is required for an ercoupe 415c to be lsa? I have a friend that has one.
It shows gw 1260 which leaves little payload but book says also 1400. Can it be flown at 1320?
I will seek advice from FAA this week just looking for points to ponder lol.

[drseti]

The original Ercoupe 415C did indeed have a maximum gross weight of 1260 pounds, and all of its performance specs make it Sport Pilot eligible, provided it hasn't been modified. Many years ago (long before the LSA rules were written), a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) was offered to raise the gross weight to 1400 pounds. Most Ercoupe owners complied with this STC -- there was really no reason not to. Unfortunately, any aircraft that has ever been registered outside of LSA limits can never go back. So, truly Sport Pilot compliant 'Coupes are exceedingly rare, and priced accordingly. Just because someone says their Ercoupe is "an LSA" doesn't make it so! You have to check the FAA records to see if the STC was ever issued to that particular serial number.

There are other modifications that can take the 'Coupe out of Sport Pilot eligibility. Many 415Cs have, over the years, had their engines replaced with the 100 HP Continental O-200. This engine was used in the 415D. Since the model 415D is not eligible, doing this engine swap essentially converts the C to a D model, taking it out of Sport Pilot eligibility.

There is currently an STC to take the 415C up to 1320 pounds maximum gross weight. This involves minor tail modifications to keep the stall speed below the LSA-maximum 45 KCAS at maximum gross weight. A plane with this STC and mod would still be Sport Pilot eligible, but only if it has never been certified at a still higher weight!

For much more on the Ercoupe for Sport Pilots, see these columns on my website:
http://avsport.org/askdr/index.html#ercoupe
http://avsport.org/askdr/index.html#whichcoupe
http://avsport.org/askdr/index.html#coupebfr

[3Dreaming]

There are other modifications that can take the 'Coupe out of Sport Pilot eligibility. Many 415Cs have, over the years, had their engines replaced with the 100 HP Continental O-200. This engine was used in the 415D. Since the model 415D is not eligible, doing this engine swap essentially converts the C to a D model, taking it out of Sport Pilot eligibility.

The 415C and the 415D were built under different type certificates, so installing a Continental 0-200 would not change it to a 415D. An STC to upgrade to the continental 0-200 would not take away its eligibility unless it does for some other reason like increased gross weight.

[drseti]

Tom, this very issue has been discussed extensively within the Ercoupe Owner's Club, and folks far more knowledgeable than I have concluded otherwise. I would proceed with extreme caution with regard to an O-200 in a 415C.

I haven't actually seen the O-200 STC for the 415C. It's entirely possible that it specifies a higher gross weight. I'll have to ask Jim Dyer at Univair about this, as I believe his father was the person who generated that STC in the first place.

[roger lee]

So long as it meets the max stall speed of <45 knots, max speed of 120 knots and a gross weight for that specific plane of 1320 lbs. or less a sport pilot can fly it.
This shouldn't be hard to debate. If any Europa falls out of the above limits then you can't fly it as a sport pilot. A plane doesn't have to be an LSA for a sport pilot to fly it, just fall under the limits for LSA.

[drseti]

We're all in agreement on that, Roger. The only question becomes whether the gross weight exceeds 1320 for that specific plane. If the O-200 STC happens to specify a higher gross weight (I'm not aware that it does, but I have to look into this), then Sport Pilot eligibility is of course compromised.

[3Dreaming]

I just looked at the TCDS, and none of the Ercoupes had a Continental 0-200 listed as an available engine. The C-90 was the biggest engine listed. This would be a good reason to look at the paper work on file with the FAA if the airplane has a 0-200 installed.

[roger lee]

All you would have to do is look at the W&B sheet and check the gross weight. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes per plane

[drseti]

Roger, three years ago I helped a student search for a 'Coupe. We found some that had the 1400# STC issued, then "lost," and the plane advertised as LSA, with wt/bal sheets that said 1260. Caveat emptor!

[Dennis]

Please bear with me on grammatical errors this is done on droid.

What is required for an ercoupe 415c to be lsa? I have a friend that has one.
It shows gw 1260 which leaves little payload but book says also 1400. Can it be flown at 1320?
I will seek advice from FAA this week just looking for points to ponder lol.

I'm curious how easy you find getting in and out of the Ercoupe. We've got two of them at our airpark and I have a hard time getting in and out. I'm 5'8" and 145 pounds and reasonably able for a 72 year old geezer. My wife also has difficulty with ingress and egress. It's really too bad, because my Ercoupe owner neighbors have steered me to some really cherry planes for $20K- $35K.

Dennis

[drseti]

I'm curious how easy you find getting in and out of the Ercoupe.

No more or less difficult than getting in or out of my SportStar, Dennis. The main diference is that, with the 'Coupe, I end up having to step on the seat (I hate doing that!). I'm only a little stiff, but then, I'm five years your junior. (Thanks a lot for reminding me of what I have to look forward to. )

[goinaround]

This ercoupe is weight and balanced at 12hundred and whatever leaving a useful load of 350 roughly. I weigh 185, really leaves no room for instructor. How does one get checked.out. I have flown with the owner but would feel more confident being checked out by a Cfi. But must I.

[goinaround]

It is weight and balanced at 12 hundred and whatever leaving 350 useful load. No room for instructor with me at 185. Options. Can I fly it without being checked out. I have flown it with tthe owner but...

[drseti]

This does not compute. The 'Coupe I've flown most recently is heavier than most, because it has metallized wings. Empty weight is 835#. With max gross of 1260, that leaves 425 useful load. Put 5 gallons of fuel in the header tank and 3 1/2 in each wing - that's 72 pounds, enough for a 2-hour lesson with legal reserve. Gives you a 353# payload. Assume no baggage (which is appropriate for training). Two 170 pound adults keep you still 13 pounds below gross. Since you weigh 185, your instructor has to be below 168 (which just happens to be my exact weight!). If you can lose 10 pounds, you'll not only be healthier, but it will make finding an instructor easier. and, if you find a 'Coupe with fabric wings, you save 30 to 40 pounds, and it becomes a non-issue.