ESLA

Are you building/buying/flying an Experimental Amateur-Built (E-AB) or Experimental Light Sport (E-LSA) aircraft? Converting an S-LSA to E-LSA? Changing or adding equipment, or otherwise modifying an S-LSA? Need help with Letters of Authorization? Or maybe designing your own aircraft? This forum is the place to discuss All Things Experimental.

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Atrosa
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ESLA

Postby Atrosa » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:24 pm

A few questions. If i were to want to put an offer on an ESLA and the owner has done the annuals could i get a A&P to perform an annual or a prepurchase inspection? So said plane is currently out of annual.. So is an annual more or less thorough then a pre purchase inspection? Who typically foots the bill? I dont know the customary things if any in an airplane purchase.

3Dreaming
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Re: ESLA

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:05 am

There is no standard for a pre buy inspection. They can be as simple as a cursory check of the logbooks, to as detailed as a condition inspection, (annual inspections are for type certified aircraft). It is customary for the purchaser to pay for the inspection, so you want to make sure you really want to buy the airplane before you get to that point. It is also a good idea to let the owner know your plans for the inspection before you start.

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ShawnM
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Re: ESLA

Postby ShawnM » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:27 am

First, everything is negotiable in a sale and I dont believe that anything is "customary". It's all in the negotiation.

What's the reason it's out of annual would be my first question? Diving head first into the logbooks would be where I'd start first. Many times the deal may live or die just by looking at the logbooks.

A condition inspection will find many things if they are hiding and and it's the only way to know if the airplane can be "in a condition for safe operation" again since it's currently not. Follow the manufacturers checklist. The condition inspection is of course very different than a prebuy, there are little things on the condition inspection that you normally may not inspect on a pre-buy "look under the hood".

What worked for me was an exam of the logbooks first, then once I was satisfied I did a quick (about 1 hour) inspection of the plane to make sure there was nothing hiding on the inside and then once happy with that I scheduled my then LSRM to do a complete and thorough pre-buy which turned into an annual for me since the plane was just months away from needing one.

I also recommend a LSRM with knowledge of the particular plane you are looking at. Nothing against A&P's, and there are many good ones out there, but when it comes to LSA many A&P's dont know what they dont know.

Just my 2¢

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drseti
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Re: ESLA

Postby drseti » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:19 am

See my EAA webinar "How to Buy a Used LSA" (downloadable from my website at http://avsport.org/webinars/videos/prebuy.mp4) for a more detailed answer than you asked for! ;)
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TimTaylor
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Re: ESLA

Postby TimTaylor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:22 pm

It is probably ill-advised to purchase an aircraft without a pre-buy inspection. More often than not, this is something the buyer would pay for. There could be more than one potential buyer having pre-buy inspections done.

If I was buying an aircraft that did not have a current condition inspection, I would make my offer to purchase contingent on the seller having a condition inspection performed and certified. If necessary, I might increase my offer to cover part of the cost of the inspection.
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3Dreaming
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Re: ESLA

Postby 3Dreaming » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:57 pm

ShawnM wrote: I also recommend a LSRM with knowledge of the particular plane you are looking at. Nothing against A&P's, and there are many good ones out there, but when it comes to LSA many A&P's dont know what they dont know.

Just my 2¢


The same can be said of LSRM. As a 35 year plus A&P mechanic who is Rotax, and Flight Design trained actively working on LSA aircraft, I have seen more poor quality work performed on LSA aircraft by LSRM than A&P's. It is not the letters you write next to your certificate number that matters. It is your training and experience that makes the difference.

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ShawnM
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Re: ESLA

Postby ShawnM » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:26 am

3Dreaming wrote:
ShawnM wrote: I also recommend a LSRM with knowledge of the particular plane you are looking at. Nothing against A&P's, and there are many good ones out there, but when it comes to LSA many A&P's dont know what they dont know.

Just my 2¢


The same can be said of LSRM. As a 35 year plus A&P mechanic who is Rotax, and Flight Design trained actively working on LSA aircraft, I have seen more poor quality work performed on LSA aircraft by LSRM than A&P's. It is not the letters you write next to your certificate number that matters. It is your training and experience that makes the difference.


I couldn't agree more that it's all about the training. My point is that LSRM's are "trained" to work on LSA aircraft (not GA) while most A&P's are not. Do all LSRM's do great work, no, do all A&P's do great work, no. Some A&P's, like yourself, have had the "training" and are the exception to the rule. I know owner/operators assume that "oh, he's a A&P, he's trained to work on my LSA". which couldn't be further from the truth.

The OP was asking about a pre buy, not getting any service. For the record I stated that for a pre buy a LSRM WITH knowledge of said LSA would be a better choice over a A&P. I didn't say anything about the quality of service from either a LSRM or A&P.

TimTaylor
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Re: ESLA

Postby TimTaylor » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:49 pm

I would want someone who is experienced and knows the airplane. It doesn't matter to me which it is.
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Sling 2 Pilot
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Re: ESLA

Postby Sling 2 Pilot » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:09 pm

TimTaylor wrote:I would want someone who is experienced and knows the airplane. It doesn't matter to me which it is.


I agree Tim. I want someone who knows my aircraft. They may be a great A&P, IA or LSRM, but do they know the quirks of my type, be it LSA or standard category aircraft?

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ShawnM
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Re: ESLA

Postby ShawnM » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:20 am

Sling 2 Pilot wrote:
TimTaylor wrote:I would want someone who is experienced and knows the airplane. It doesn't matter to me which it is.


I agree Tim. I want someone who knows my aircraft. They may be a great A&P, IA or LSRM, but do they know the quirks of my type, be it LSA or standard category aircraft?


Everyone has different comfort levels and I agree that it should be someone WITH knowledge of the light sport airplane that he's doing the pre buy on.

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Re: ESLA

Postby rcpilot » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:42 am

I'll throw this out there. Logistically, when I bought my Zenith E-AB, it was not possible to get an "independent" A&P to do my pre-buy(the annual was current). I allowed the previous owner's mechanic to do it. He basically took everything off the plane that would come off and gave me a detailed tour. Showed me the cylinder compressions and brought me up to speed on work that he had done(earlier in the year he had removed the wing tanks to reseal them). His only recommendation was that I would need new tires(which I ordered when I took delivery and needed as my instructor got a flat flying off the 5 hours the insurance company wanted him to do). As I recall, for whatever reason, he only charged $100. I felt pretty confident between what he showed me and my review of the log books there were no issues. My current A&P had no experience with the plane. He's a good A&P but there is a learning curve(that I'm paying for) but I can't complain about his work. The Rotax owner's site has come in handy as we had to send the gearbox out for it's 600 hour maintenance(and they have a video how to remove/reinstall it).

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MrMorden
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Re: ESLA

Postby MrMorden » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:58 am

Honestly, I'd take a pre-buy inspection from a person intimately familiar with the airplane type that knows all the common issues with it, even if they have no FAA credentials.
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ShawnM
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Re: ESLA

Postby ShawnM » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:33 pm

MrMorden wrote:Honestly, I'd take a pre-buy inspection from a person intimately familiar with the airplane type that knows all the common issues with it, even if they have no FAA credentials.


Yup, nothing wrong with that either. Knowing what I now know today about my SportCruiser, I feel extremely confident in doing my own pre-buy if I were to purchase another one. I know the SportCruiser inside and out and every inch in between. :mrgreen:


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