Any near miss stories?

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designrs
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby designrs » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:07 am

I can understand the limitations of ADS-B in the pattern. However, in busy airspace—particularly in Florida—I have found ADS-B to be indispensable.
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FastEddieB
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby FastEddieB » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:15 am

designrs wrote:I can understand the limitations of ADS-B in the pattern. However, in busy airspace—particularly in Florida—I have found ADS-B to be indispensable.


For historical perspective, I learned to fly in S Florida in the mid-1970’s. My recollection is that traffic then was nearly an order of magnitude higher than it is today. And yet most of us survived without ADSB or other traffic alerting technology.

So, I’d take issue with “indispensable. Nice to have? Maybe. But far from indispensable.
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Sundancer
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby Sundancer » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:39 pm

I don't have any time flying in Florida - were mid-airs in cruise more common there before ADS-B?

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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby drseti » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:06 pm

Sundancer wrote:I don't have any time flying in Florida - were mid-airs in cruise more common there before ADS-B?


It's a small sample size, to be sure, but my NMAC outlined in the above-referenced EAA webinar occurred in Florida, during enroute cruise, and pre-ADS-B.

As far as actual midair collision accidents are concerned, they are (thankfully) too rate to permit statistically significant data analysis. But subjectively, enroute collisions are relatively uncommon. The majority appear to occur in the traffic pattern, as discussed toward the end of my safety seminar.
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Scooper
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby Scooper » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:11 pm

We had a close call a couple of years ago when a flying buddy who's a retired ATC controller and is currently building a Zenith CH750 Cruzer and I were flying in my Zodiac to a Quality Sport Planes open house up Highway 101 in Cloverdale. We were about ten miles south of the airport talking to flight following and had the airport in sight, so I called to terminate FF and switch to the CTAF. He told me there were multiple targets between our position and the airport, squawk 1200, and frequency change approved. About a minute after he turned me loose, a PA-28 appeared out of nowhere about 100 yards ahead of us at our altitude and coming straight at us. It didn't take me but a millisecond to put us into a steep dive and he flew right over us. I'm guessing he never saw us. We just looked at each other in disbelief.

We were pretty shaken up, but landed and had a great time at the open house. The trip home was uneventful.
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby drseti » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:17 pm

Scooper wrote:appeared out of nowhere about 100 yards ahead of us at our altitude and coming straight at us. It didn't take me but a millisecond to put us into a steep dive and he flew right over us. I'm guessing he never saw us.


That was my FL scenario exactly, except that FF freq was so overcrowded that nobody could get a word in edgewise. The A36 Bonanza that overflow me never saw me, but his wake cracked my canopy.
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
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snaproll
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby snaproll » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:10 pm

Interesting subject. In my 50+ years of flying and growing up on Flabob Airport, I have witnessed approximately 20 accidents and 5 mid air collisions at Flabob and surrounding airports. Of the 5 mid air collisions, 4 were due to pilots with their heads buried in the cockpit paying more attention to their panel than their environment around them. All were on clear days under VFR conditions, all involved aircraft crossing paths, and all were preventable. The 5th was a 140 descending on downwind while a 120 was ascending on the same path, the 120 cutting the tail off of the 140 with it’s prop. All were fatal except the 120 which landed safely in an open field, no prop, no windshield, mangled cowling, but controllable. Situational awareness of the surrounding area and constantly scanning the sky is the key to safety, especially in the vicinity of an airport. The 20 accidents I vividly recall included 3 structural failures, 2 pilot errors, 12 engine failures, 2 fuel exhaustion’s, and one pilot who forgot to remove the control lock on the elevator (external wood blocks) on a Piper Apache. No preflight, no run up, just started, taxied to the runway, and opened throttles.. pilot didn’t figure it out until after the Apache lifted off and started climbing - too late.. The engine failures mentioned were off field and resulted in hard off field landings, 2 stall/spins, several aircraft flipped over, and others with minor damage. I didn’t count the failures which landed safely on the runway or the cross wind takeoffs that went array. Seems life experienced stay etched in your memory. Plenty of near miss situations over the years, usually with one pilot buried in the cockpit and the other aware and executed avoidance. ADS-B is great if everyone has it. Still no substitute for an aware pilot. Vr... Don Stits

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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby Sundancer » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:15 pm

Flabob! I was in the Aero Club at Norton, my first solo was at Hemet-Ryan, early 70's. So long ago. But I digress.

I've come to think that while all accidents are preventable, some are inevitable. I know it sounds contradictory, but I think it's an aspect of human nature. Our perceptions are going to be fooled sometimes, our muscle memory kicks in for the wrong airplane, whatever.

It may be a little heretical, but I think some aspects of the safety culture are, uh, nonsensical, like "all accidents being preventable" and zero accidents being a rational goal. I honestly don't think those are standards we should adopt. It sucks the joy out of flying. Some risk is inevitable; it's probably up to the individual to set that tolerance level. Inevitably, someone will accept a risk that will end badly. Our knowledge is never perfect..

Clearly, blasting off in the Apache with the gust locks on is sad, silly, and wasteful. At the other extreme, putting the airplane through an Annual before each flight is just as silly. Between the two are where most of us live, within one standard deviation or so.

I've pushed a cross-wind limit sometimes; once or twice I've stretched the fuel. Bad habits, and now I think I can always get away with it? Nah, that's just BS. I learned from escaping a problem of my own making. Most people are smart enough to learn, and I don't buy that crap that "others" will build bad habits - It comes across as "I wont' be that dumb, but other guys will". Guess what? Other guys are smart, too. And the ones that aren't, Darwin has a plan.

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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby Scooper » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:38 pm

snaproll wrote:Interesting subject. In my 50+ years of flying and growing up on Flabob Airport, I have witnessed approximately 20 accidents and 5 mid air collisions at Flabob and surrounding airports. Of the 5 mid air collisions, 4 were due to pilots with their heads buried in the cockpit paying more attention to their panel than their environment around them. All were on clear days under VFR conditions, all involved aircraft crossing paths, and all were preventable.Vr... Don Stits

Thank you, Don. We've never met, but I met your dad in the mid-sixties when I worked for Hughes Aircraft Company in the Culver City flight test division. I flew rental 150s and 172s out of SMO at the time and visited Flabob several times.

Growing up at Flabob, working with your dad, and designing airplanes in your own right must have been a great experience.
Stan Cooper (K4DRD)
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drseti
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby drseti » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:01 pm

Stan, Don's dad was great. I wanna be Ray Stits when I grow up!
The opinions posted are those of one CFI, and do not necessarily represent the FAA or its lawyers.
Prof H Paul Shuch
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snaproll
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby snaproll » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:44 pm

Stan,
Probably met you in the mid 60’s at the shop. It was an interesting life and experience.
Paul,
My recommendation - don’t grow up.
Vr... Don

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foresterpoole
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby foresterpoole » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:00 pm

I think the airport I fly out of is cursed (2L0), multiple accidents in the past few years and anecdotal near misses thanks to the proximity to class D airport (AEX), short runway, seaplane runway, and non-standard approach/glide slope. In 2009 there was a mid-air collision between two Cessnas. There were fatalities and amazingly someone cough it on camera (link below). I knew Ingrid, one of the passengers involved, who is a pilot herself, this was before I even considered getting a license and it kind of slipped my mind until this thread came up.

My close call was actually with a drone, and I was flying the drone legally and within the constraints of a posted flight plan on Flight Services but it was still way to close for comfort. I posted it on this forum somewhere (as well as filing a NASA report) I am sure you can look it up. That was the closest call I've had, a few times when out flying the plane I've seen an aircraft close, but probably more than 300 - 500 yards away and easily avoided.

http://wesawthat.blogspot.com/2009/10/two-small-planes-collide-near-buhlow.html
Ed

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snaproll
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Re: Any near miss stories?

Postby snaproll » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:11 pm

drseti wrote:Stan, Don's dad was great. I wanna be Ray Stits when I grow up!

Paul,
Great seeing you are still active and have a sense of humor. Ray has been gone for 5 years now, and I still receive questions on his designs in my email. I donated all of the original prints to Smithsonian last year, a place to preserve history. EAA no longer has any of his airplanes on display, guess it’s out of sight, out of mind with them. I inquired what happened to the SA9A Skycoupe I delivered to EAA in 77’ (in show condition) and was advised it was “cut up for parts”. The only Stits bird left on display is my Babybird. Life is interesting.
Best always... Don Stits


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