There was a recent base to final crash (not LSA) which prompted refresher reading. It also made me grateful for my LSA's low stall speed and forgiving nature. Here's an article discussing typical causes of the base to final stall / crash:
http://www.flyingmag.com/safety/acciden ... ning-final
Base To Final
Moderator: drseti
Re: Base To Final
The deadmans spin is the result of stall on base to final. The fastest way to do that is to pull the nose up in a banking turn where the load factor raises stall speed higher than the POH stall speeds low to the ground (the result of too much bank and too little power).
If you want to make sure you are safe, first make sure the ball is centered. If you get the ball out, make sure to lower the nose and if necessary add throttle. If lowering the nose makes you too low, go around.
Don't over complicate. You want to figure this out as soon as possible since you are low to the ground.
If you want to make sure you are safe, first make sure the ball is centered. If you get the ball out, make sure to lower the nose and if necessary add throttle. If lowering the nose makes you too low, go around.
Don't over complicate. You want to figure this out as soon as possible since you are low to the ground.
Last edited by CTLSi on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
- FastEddieB
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Re: Base To Final
Just to be clear...
...spins and spirals are very different animals.
...spins and spirals are very different animals.
Re: Base To Final
As Fast Eddie noted, that's not the case.CTLSi wrote:The deadmans spin (graveyard spiral) is the result of stall on base to final.
A "Graveyard Spiral" is a result of spatial disorientation, usually while flying in IMC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_spiral
http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184306-1.html
Are you suggesting an airplane can't stall in coordinated flight?CTLSi wrote:
If you want to make sure you are safe, first make sure the ball is centered.
http://www.bruceair.com/stall-spin/stalls.htm
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Re: Base To Final
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Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Base To Final
You are far from being any type of authority on this. What's more, historically, there seems to be a credibility deficit.CTLSi wrote:The deadmans spin (graveyard spiral) is the result of stall on base to final. The fastest way to do that is to pull the nose up in a banking turn where the load factor raises stall speed higher than the POH stall speeds low to the ground (the result of too much bank and too little power).
If you want to make sure you are safe, first make sure the ball is centered. If you get the ball out, make sure to lower the nose and if necessary add throttle. If lowering the nose makes you too low, go around.
Don't over complicate. You want to figure this out as soon as possible since you are low to the ground.
Study hard, practice and keep learning.
Leave the flight instruction to the Certified Flight Instructors. There is plenty of talent here.
Bill Ince
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
LSRI
Retired Heavy Equipment Operator
Re: Base To Final
Wm.Ince wrote:CTLSi wrote: You are far from being any type of authority on this. What's more, historically, there seems to be a credibility deficit.
Study hard, practice and keep learning.
Leave the flight instruction to the Certified Flight Instructors. There is plenty of talent here.
^^^^^^^
We need a "Like" button.
Re: Base To Final
I tripped one time off a curb due to being massively uncoordinated.
Was I in danger of entering a graveyard spiral? I was very close to the ground. Maybe six inches or so.
Was I in danger of entering a graveyard spiral? I was very close to the ground. Maybe six inches or so.
Andy Walker
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Athens, GA
Sport Pilot ASEL, LSRI
2007 Flight Design CTSW E-LSA
Re: Base To Final
Everything I stated is true...keep the ball centered, keep the nose down, keep the bank 30 degrees or less and you have a safe, winning formula for landing success....everytime.
Re: Base To Final
This is a different subject. The discussion is base to final and stalling in that turn.SportPilot wrote:Step on the ball. Uncoordinated flight has nothing to do with nose being high or low or too little or too much power. You can also bank away from the ball.CTLSi wrote: If you want to make sure you are safe, first make sure the ball is centered. If you get the ball out, make sure to lower the nose and if necessary add throttle.
Re: Base To Final
I hope all of us look at NTSB reports as a learning tool. In this instance, I saw two tangible facts:
* The pilot was turning base-to-final at approximately 214' AGL. This is very low for a standard pattern and allows little time for recovery from an unplanned event. I'm typically around 500' AGL when I'm established on Final.
* The pilot was steeply banked at a low airspeed (and a low altitude).
Fixing either one of these might of saved the pilot (assuming 500' AGL is sufficient for CAPS).
Of course, there is the question of 'why' an experienced pilot made those decisions but we'll never know for sure why. We can cement the results of these decisions in our brains and try not to repeat them.
* The pilot was turning base-to-final at approximately 214' AGL. This is very low for a standard pattern and allows little time for recovery from an unplanned event. I'm typically around 500' AGL when I'm established on Final.
* The pilot was steeply banked at a low airspeed (and a low altitude).
Fixing either one of these might of saved the pilot (assuming 500' AGL is sufficient for CAPS).
Of course, there is the question of 'why' an experienced pilot made those decisions but we'll never know for sure why. We can cement the results of these decisions in our brains and try not to repeat them.
dave
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Re: Base To Final
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Last edited by SportPilot on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Base To Final
I read that, did the math ... figured there was a typo. Who would be turning base to final at 214' AGL? If I remember correctly, he was flying the entire pattern way below recommended altitude.dstclair wrote:I hope all of us look at NTSB reports as a learning tool. In this instance, I saw two tangible facts:
* The pilot was turning base-to-final at approximately 214' AGL. This is very low for a standard pattern and allows little time for recovery from an unplanned event. I'm typically around 500' AGL when I'm established on Final.
Like you, I was taught I should be at about 500' AGL when established on final.
Re: Base To Final
As I mentioned some months ago, very early in my training, like about the third lesson, I did exactly that. Overbanked from base to final, got too slow, and the inside wing just dropped. CFI caught the plane and recovered quickly. Scared the doo-doo out of me. I think that may be why it took me so long to get landings down.