if only it were slower

[dstclair]

I think the Sport Pilot restrictions make perfect sense for Sport Pilots. If you want to fly other aircraft, get a Private or Commercial.

There is a tendency to merge SP and LSA as a single set of regulations. I agree with all the above that SP should have a set of restrictions but these same restrictions need not necessarily apply to the aircraft. Just as there are GA aircraft that I do not have the endorsement or rating to fly there could be LSAs that an entry level SP cannot fly without getting an endorsement. The endorsement route is already there (gyro, seaplane, etc.) so why not add a complex endorsement?

Of course, I've not heard of any manufacturers who want to go to the expense in trying to materially change the LSA standard.

[MovingOn]

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[rgstubbsjr]

When you start adding complexity of aircraft, you need to examine pilot qualifications. If you want to allow Sport Pilots to fly complex aircraft, you are basically changing the definition of Sport Pilot. They have already done that. It's called Private Pilot. There is also Recreation Pilot.

The FAA created the Sport Pilot certificate to make it easier and less expensive to get into aviation. Now, people want to expand it. Nobody is ever satisfied. If you want to fly larger aircraft, go get a Private.

Wow. Really?
Don't make Light Sport planes safer. Just spend more money to fly bigger. more expensive (and mostly 30-60 year old) airplanes.
Why can't we adopt the same standards they have in Europe? They don't see any problem with faster, stronger or complex ultralight\sport planes.
By the way "being satisfied" equals status quo, equals stagnation. The aircraft industry in this country was stagnant for too many years. That's why we are in our current state.

[MovingOn]

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[MrMorden]

You're creating a problem where one does not exist. Go get a Private or Commercial and earn the right to fly more sophisticated aircraft. It's you that is stagnated at the level of Sport Pilot instead of increasing your skill and experience. You want the industry to tailor to your wants and desires. It's not going to happen. Sport Pilots are restricted for a reason.

What is that reason, exactly? We have shown it's not a lesser skill level.

[MovingOn]

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[MrMorden]

You're creating a problem where one does not exist. Go get a Private or Commercial and earn the right to fly more sophisticated aircraft. It's you that is stagnated at the level of Sport Pilot instead of increasing your skill and experience. You want the industry to tailor to your wants and desires. It's not going to happen. Sport Pilots are restricted for a reason.

What is that reason, exactly? We have shown it's not a lesser skill level.

It's not exactly the same. If it was, why doesn't everyone get a Private? Why not do away with Sport Pilot completely?

In getting a Private, you have a different ground school, different written test, different flight training, different flight test, more dual hours, more solo hours, more cross country, night flight, and larger airplanes. In addition, you must pass an FAA physical. We can argue all day on how different.

You can make the same argument to get rid of Private, then Commercial, then ATP. Let's let Sport Pilots fly for Delta.

My point is the differences are inconsequential to complex operations. Night operations and radio navigation have no bearing on basic flying skill, and those are literally the only differences. I had to pass a check ride for my SP ticket demonstrating every flying skill you did for your PP. Slow flight, stalls, ground reference maneuvers, different landing types, engine out emergencies, unusual attitudes...it's all the same.

The reason people get the Sport over the Private is almost exclusively medical.

[snaproll]

OK - Old Dog Time...
To clear the air, Sport Pilot was created to enable a larger portion of the population fly a class of aircraft with less training, less dual time, no instrument time, no night time, and no physical. Sport pilots can fly any aircraft falling within the Light Sport Category which include modern LSA’s, a host of experimental aircraft, and dozens of older standard category aircraft. The EAA fought for many years to establish this category and it has been successful. There are misconceptions noted in previous post regarding the safety, i.e.. “Doing more than a half a turn in a spin without shedding the wings …”. LSA’s have an admirable safety record and have far fewer structural failures than both standard category aircraft and experimental aircraft. Most also have adequate useful load for two souls, full fuel, and baggage. Pilots who wish to advance to heavier high performance aircraft typically go on to their private ticket, pilots who don’t stay with the Sport Pilots license. Seldom is the license or rating an indication of pilot skill. Hours flown and ratings do not necessarily make a safer pilot. Over the years, I have seen too many 10,000 hour pilots fly into mountains, land gear up, and land at the wrong airport. If some forum members think LSA's are unsafe, then design and build your own - opps , your a critic, not a designer...

VR.. Don
PP - ASEL
Remos GX owner - 600 lb. useful load
Life Member - EAA

[rgstubbsjr]

You're creating a problem where one does not exist. Go get a Private or Commercial and earn the right to fly more sophisticated aircraft. It's you that is stagnated at the level of Sport Pilot instead of increasing your skill and experience. You want the industry to tailor to your wants and desires. It's not going to happen. Sport Pilots are restricted for a reason.

I have, in my checkered past, flown everything from J-3's to B-727's, P-51D to F-100D and F-4C,D,E, B-17, B-25, B-24 and B-52, C-47, C-54, C-93, C-119, C-123, C-130, C-141. Wheels, floats, hulls and skis. I have had a PPL and just about everything else that can be added to it. I can fly anything I want.
What I want are Light Sport Planes that make good sense, not good politics.

[MovingOn]

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[MrMorden]

Then they wouldn't be LSA, would they? Since you can fly whatever you want, what is your issue? Go fly whatever you want. LSA limits are what they are, not for political reasons, but to make them as safe as possible for very low time, novice pilots. They meet that objective pretty well.

I guess the point is that not all people flying LSA are low time pilots, and there will come a time when there are very high time pilots with Sport certificates. Then that reasoning makes little sense.

[dstclair]

I'm only aware of Canada and Australia having a pilot certificate similar to the US Sport Pilot. Those countries also have a similar category to our LSA. A few differences:

* Both allow for controllable propellers
* Neither have a top end speed limitation
* Australia does have the same stall speed regs
* Canada is limited to 560kg, Australia 600kg
* 600kg seems to be the upper end of most countries (including Europe)

I guess Canadian and Australia novice pilots have somehow figured out how to operate 2 buttons on a controllable prop and withstand the G forces experienced by exceeding 120kts

Keep in mind the LSA aircraft in these countries are essentially the same aircraft we have in the US.

Unfortunately, the US took a more restrictive approach in some areas. That being said -- I'm a HUGE LSA fan and they got it 90% right which is pretty good for bureaucracy.

[3Dreaming]

In my opinion the purpose of creating sport pilot was to gain control of all those illegally flying overweight ultralights and 2 seat ultralight trainers. They provided a pathway for those who were already flying and any newcomers to get the rating. They also needed to define what kind of aircraft these people could fly. This is where a "Light Sport Aircraft" comes in to play, it was intended to be a simple aircraft to go with the simple rating. I think we should feel lucky that they expanded the limitations beyond what would have been required to encompass a simple 2 seat ultralight trainer. If they hadn't we would not be looking at these fancy and very capable light sport aircraft that we see now.

[MovingOn]

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[CharlieTango]

...you defeat the original intent of Sport Pilot.

The original intent of the rule was to bring 'fat ultralights' into compliance with a rule. You keep re-writing the intent and arguing the original intent must be preserved.

Taking the best features of EU, Canadian and OZ rules and incorporating them into our rule would serve us well. Electric adjustable props, turbos for high altitude, 800kg MTOW, and no speed limit would be the right changes.