Financial Strength

[seastar]

I want to buy an LSA but don't want to end upwith an unreparable orphan.
How do you find out how strong the parent company is when they are in the Chech Republic or Germany or where ever

[Roger]

Just start calling the companies. Ask about dealerships. Inventory plans, etc. Are they privately held or not, etc. Good bets are Flight Design the number one seller, Cesena, and Cirrus - you can bet those three will be around.

Roger H

[glyn]

we sell the Tecnam's . they have been building aircraft since 1948.

[slsaowner]

An equally important question to ask is: How good is the dealer support? Will the dealer still be around when you need him/her? How about factory support? Do they maintain a centralized parts inventory in the U.S.? If you wish to modify your SLSA, can you get prompt factory approval?

[seastar]

Cessna's program is behind schedule because of the crash and the economy.
Cirrus is in financial trouble and have cut back 30%. They have delayed their LSA program.
Those two are the only US based large manufacturers.If I wait for them I may never get an LSA.
That leaves only very small US manufacturers or offshore companies that are difficult to contact and obtain any meaningfull financial information.
Several blogs say that it's very diffucult to get parts from Flight Design right now
LSA's have an unusual problem in that you cannot modify the aircraft in any way without approval from the manufacturer.
That means you can not add a new piece of avionics or move somthing in the panel if the manufacturer is gone.
If you can't get a special repair part the aircraft is useless.
I think one of the most important things about an LSA is who built it and how strong that company is.
I can imagine having an LSA that I can not fly because some little $100. spare part is no longer available

[Super Cub]

Seastar,
Do you have the blog addresses concerning the Flight Design parts you mention?

[tadel001]

Seastar, your information is not exaclty correct. Yes, you cannot modify an LSA without approval. Approval typically comes from the manufacturer. However, if the manufacturer goes out of business there are a number of options to maintain the airworthiness certificate and subsequent modifications. The easiest method is the formation of an owner's group. This group would be responsible for future SBs and modificaiton request.

[CharlieTango]

seastar,

i have had a ctsw for 2 1/2 years and i know many ct owners.

there have been some issues for some parts but for the most part we can get anything we typically need shipped overnight and reasonably priced.

[rfane]

I'm wondering where the shortage of parts from Flight Design thing is coming from as well. There's no mention of any difficultes on CTFlyer.com, and I had parts overnight when my annual was done in late August.

Ed,

You might be interested to know that you were recently mentioned on the AOPA board. The thread was for the minimum aircraft to fly into MMH with. Most of the respondents say they wouldn't go in anything less than a 182, 300 pounds under gross, with many recommendations for even turbocharged twins. One guy based at Bishop, who is one of the minimum 182 guys, posted "there's a guy (braver than me) based at MMH who flies a CT Light Sport, and all the local, more experienced guys fly their 172s there routinely".

Some day, word may get out on just how well the CT and Rotax perform. I'd expect you would still outclimb that lightly loaded 182.

[CharlieTango]

my old 172 had a 180hp stc and did fine, the ctsw performs like an old 182 in terms of flying here.

climb is great, but you can fly a glider, hang glider or paraglider around here as well. you have to use your head.

most people that have trouble are overloaded, they don't understand leaning and performance at altitude.

the ct does make the mountain flying fun, you can point it right at a big mountain and it misses it.

[CharlieTango]

what makes flying around mammoth in a light sport tricky isn't the performance but the ( if applicable ) 10,000' MSL limitation.

this limitation creates the need to go the long way ( could be over 100nm detour ) or to fly very close to the terrain and very deep in passes.

mammoth pass is a good example, you can cross at 9,600' and clear the terrain but at times that could be a very interesting place to fly close to the terrain. this is within 5 miles of where steve fosset went down.

[Roger]

Seastar,

Until you let us know where you found out this mostly "incorrect information" about shortage of parts for the CT I would suggest to all not to take your posts to seriously.

Parts have always been a "piece of cake" for me...so fess up!

Roger H

[seastar]

I am glad to hear that parts are a "piece of cake" for CT's.
After attending both the Sebring show and Sun & Fun this year the FD CTLS was at the top of my short list.
Then I checked the NTSB accident database - bounce - whoops!
Then I started calling owners in my state to get first hand input on the airplane.
Of the first four I spoke with two had parts delivery problems. One had waited two months for a brake part.
An internet search turns up interesting data about several brands of LSA's. Anyone can do it.
My original post asked a simple question about finding financial data on offshore manufactures. I guess this is not the place to ask - my fault.

I thought this forum might help me decide which LSA to buy.
I guess it has in a negative sort of way.
To my dismay found out that this forum (like CTflyer) is policed by the CTflyer admin and that nothing negative about CT's is permited.

Sorry I asked - calm down
Seastar
CitationJet N21VC, Skymaster 337SS, LSA N505BR (reserved)

[rfane]

Then I started calling owners in my state to get first hand input on the airplane.
Of the first four I spoke with two had parts delivery problems. One had waited two months for a brake part.

Several blogs say that it's very diffucult to get parts from Flight Design right now

seastar,

Several CT owners, myself included, have responded here that they haven't experienced a problem in getting parts. All we have asked is for the source of your info., as you said it was posted on "several blogs". If your post is factual, you shouldn't have an issue in providing links. Nobody is trying to police you, but we want to know if what you say is true, and will affect us. Each of us has a different experience than that which you posted.

I'm a Credit Manager in my field of employment. How I would find out if someone is financially stable, is:

1. Request Financial Statements from the company's. If they are privately owned, they are not required to release them, but they certainly can. Many countries require businesses to file their annual financials, in digital format, and many of those are available online.

2. Run a credit report, such as from Dun & Bradstreet, Graydon, etc. There are many websites that allow you to purchase individual reports, but as many of these companies are European, be prepared to pay up to $200 for each. These reports can show the companies financials if released, how they pay suppliers, if any suits, liens, or judgements have been filed against them, etc.

As you are capable of doing the internet search for finding other info., you should be capable of searching for a site to buy credit reports, or locate financial statements.

Nothing you can gather is going to tell you if the company is still going to be around next year. Financials are only a snapshot of things at a specific point in time. The economy is in turmoil, and a lot of companies are going to be stessed, by lack of sales and cash flow. Circuit City just filed bankruptcy this morning. Cirrus and Mooney have announced they are cutting back. I would expect that there is going to be fallout in the LSA manufacturers as well. If people are worried about putting food on the table, and making their house payment or rent, they are not going to buy or rent an airplane. Flight schools are experiencing a downturn in their business, and some have started to close their doors.

The most stable company out there is Cessna, as they are owned by Textron. However, the economy will affect them all. Cessna wasn't always owned by Textron, so even the big ones can fall. GM, once the worlds largest corporation, is on the brink of failure, due to a lack of cash to ride out the downturn. They are asking the government for help, and I for one am going to be very pissed if my tax dollars are used to bail out GM.

[tadel001]

Seastar, unfortunately there is no real way to get the truth about finanical strength of the companies. You can get opinions but you know what they are worth.

Some things we have looked at is how long has the core company been around. We also look for aircraft that can be easily repaired without manfucturer approval, i.e. metal skins that can be repaired, simply components, etc.

Number of deliveries is telling but not conclusive. Take SportCruiser for example. They have delivered a fair amount of planes but have some financial issues (albeit a little unclear).

The last thing I would look for is a track record of the plane/design. Consistent modification to the design suggest they are still working out the bugs. Airfoils, components, materials that remain the same suggest the product is stable and easy to reproduce. You always like to see cosmetic upgrades but I get nervous when I see entire changes to the overall design, i.e. airfoil, fuselage, landing gear design, building materials.

I know that doesn't really help answer the finanical stability question but does give you some things to consider.