To buy an LSA and start a sport pilot school

[theoarno]

Well,
I won't say that new LSA's are cheap because I sure haven't boght one yet. But Compared to the cost of a new General Aviation aircraft they seem pretty resonable.
In 2008 the C-172R rolled out the door for about $234,500.
I may be mistaken but I believe the 2008 Tecnam P2004 Bravo used by Step Up Aviation in Austin may be a lease and that could be a way to go.

[Aerco]

Well,
I won't say that new LSA's are cheap because I sure haven't boght one yet. But Compared to the cost of a new General Aviation aircraft they seem pretty resonable.
In 2008 the C-172R rolled out the door for about $234,500.
I may be mistaken but I believe the 2008 Tecnam P2004 Bravo used by Step Up Aviation in Austin may be a lease and that could be a way to go.

Hm, I think it's more a case of e Cessna being insanely unreasonable as opposed to merely outrageously unreasonable. Almost a quarter of a million for a simple aircraft whose development and tooling was paid for 40 years ago or more?

[Cub flyer]

I jumped into sport pilot because we had the J-3. We've always had a J-3 or cub around in some form since 1946 for instruction. They just work well.

I've grown to like the PA-11 better for instruction. It has all the creature comforts and 85 hp climbs a lot better on a hot day. The tailwheel insurance is a pain as always. Grass is helpful if available. The tailwheel instruction is fun and flying the cub is entertaining. The students do fine with the tailwheel if instructed properly. We have not had any damage due to a ground loop on a trainer since I started paying attention in 1986. 1000's of instruction hours almost all in the pattern. Sure they have groundlooped due to screw ups but no damage. It's all in how you handle things and slow landing speeds. I've seen a lot worse with tricycle gear airplanes.

Unless there is an issue preventing a medical certificate I can't see the savings getting a sport pilot license unless it's for ultralight style flying or weight shift. A person just wanting to learn to fly and eventually buy their own airplane can rent or buy a 150 for less. Then they have no restrictions like a SP and can do the allowed owner maintenance such as an oil change. The SP really restricts an airplane owner from saving money. If you want a new airplane or like a particular LSA then go for it but to save money in a flight school I don't think it's a good idea.

I can buy and insure a 172 or 150 for a lot less money than a new LSA even with decent paint, interior, radios and engine. The four seats in the 172 allows me to give scenic rides or do longer cross countries with one student flying and one riding with a seat switch later. Large round pilots fit. The fuel burn of my 180 hp 172 is around 7.5 GPH in the pattern and 9-9.5 cruise with 1000 lbs useful and 50 gallons. Key here is getting a nice airplane to begin with and keeping it up.

I can make money renting a good condition late 70's 150 for around $85 hour. easy to insure, maintain and fly. The new LSA looks sexy but how much will the value go down after 4 years and 1500 hours +

What does the engine overhaul cost. How about parts like tires, filters, etc. Go talk to a mechanic for the airplane you are looking to purchase and see what it needs at each 100 hour and oil change. Any life limited parts? I feel I'm lucky to end up making $20 per hour on an airplane rental and a whole summer of rental is all eaten up in a second if there is an engine or airframe problem. Rugged and cheap parts are important. There are few scrap yards with LSA parts. Trainers get abused.

Use the AOPA Vref calculator to see what the standard airplane will be roughly worth after that many hours.

airplane age does not matter just appearance, service and price to most renters

Currently we're running the PA-11 $70 hr and 172 $105 hr They are both flying about 400 hours per year.

If you want glass price out an airplane with an aspen panel installed and one of the new JPI color engine monitors.

I have not had anyone ask for a glass panel. The standard 6 pack of guages baffles them enough. I do really like the portable garmin 296-496 series and we are thinking of adding an aera GPS to the PA-11.

I have the icom com radio with built in intercom in the PA-11 and it works great. This is the one with the green light up display.

I'd say start with a cheap standard airplane and then add the LSA after two years depending on interest. With an operating flight school you might be able to get insurance in a cheaper used LSA. The Current models will be available used by then.

Take the money you saved by not buying a brand new airplane and get your A/P rating. Having that WILL save you money if you can find a good IA to work with.

You'll be a one man band for the first year or so. It's long days but fun and rewarding.

[drseti]

Take the money you saved by not buying a brand new airplane and get your A/P rating.

<snip>

You'll be a one man band for the first year or so. It's long days but fun and rewarding.

In my case, I bought a used LSA instead of a new one. Part of the money I'm saving is going toward getting not the A/P, but rather the LSA Repairman Certificate. Rainbow Aviation's 120 hour course costs under $4000 (I have to budget $5000 to include transportation and lodging), runs three weeks, and you emerge with your FAA repairman's certificate, plus Rotax certification. The only problem is, with a viable flight school and me being that proverbial one-man band, it's hard to find the three weeks to shut down operations and fly to northern CA. (Carol Carpenter tells me she's planning a course in late January or early February. I'll probably do that one, since flying wx in PA will be terrible at that season.)

[Cub flyer]

Thats a good point, I had not thought of the repairmans cert.

One possibility is to buy a cheaper newer used tricycle gear LSA in the 60K range. Be very careful of changes that were made when LSA started out fall of 05. Several airplanes had big modifications the next year and you want to make sure you get one with the right configuration.

The repairmans certificate would work for you to maintain it and the insurance should be reasonable.

That may get the costs down to where it all works. You'll be busy but I always say if I took a day off I'd go to the airport anyway.

My school is odd in that I have a monopoly. I own the fuel system, hangars, airport, instruct, rebuild and maintain. It spreads the costs around for each piece of the puzzle but you have nobody to kick but yourself if something breaks. The hard part is taking a cold look at the costs of something and figuring out if it will still work a year from now.

[Super Cub]

Hey Doc,
Check out Blue Ridge Community College for the 120 hour course in VA.

http://community.brcc.edu/aviation/inde ... e-program/

[drseti]

Thanks for the lead. Looks good. Unfortunately, their schedule shows a class starting next week (right in the middle of my own summer intensive course), with nothing listed for after. If they happen to do a winter course, I'm in!

[flyingclay]

As a newbie to SP/flying, am intensly researching & evaluting closely purchasing an LSA for fun and some business opportunities in SP training.
As I have discussed on some of my other recent post, am intrigued that there are possibly untapped opportunities with marketing to a different target audience.
For it to work, my feeling is (1) The LSA needs to be safe/simple/new/sleek/interesting/sexy. (Similar to why us midlifers purchase motorcycles). (2) The target market and masses are not found at the local hangars or airports. (3) A component of revenue of the LSA will be an area that appears to currently be untapped (as far as I am aware in the LSA arena). The LSA itself we be a "market tool". (Same as a racecars markets products or businesses).
Can explain in more detail if anyone interested as I have time etc.
PS Being a pie baker and owning a pie baking business are two different things. Hence, being a SP and being the owner of an SP flight training shcool are two different things. (Doesn't mean you cant be both. Acutally,if you can, your ahead of the game)